NewMars On phpBB3

Tom,

I get what you are driving at. I do not suggest there will be a huge number of people in coveralls with hand trowels and traditional Korean Garden knives. They more likely wear a lab coat and some of them are agricultural coders (for automated watering and monitoring equipment) or sensor and dosing equipment installers and maintainers for example. That is, specialist IT people with a focus on supporting ag productioni. Weeding is probably robotic. Planting, inspecting, genomics level stuff (including crisper Cas-9), and planning to balance inputs with outputs are human activities. When/if the economy transitions to Terraforming, Botanists suddenly became very much in short supply until you have millions of them!

It might be better say Agriculture will be the largest "industry" on Mars. Yes, it will be highly productive in terms of man-hours. But so will everything else on Mars! Since the pie is bigger, there will be more people in that industry. It is also an industry that for many years will be indoors and shirtsleeve environment. Things like mining and construction are hard for meat-sacks to do at all when you can't breathe the air! So not just necessity but pragmatism means more ag workers. And as a matter of having proper reserves and to power growth, there has to be a surplus of ag products to other industries in most cases all the time.

And yes, some people will garden as a hobby. I'd expect this to look a lot different than the commercial/industrial scale stuff that powers the economic engine. Not so much how much can we get out of nothing but how sweet and tart can a tomato possibly be? Or how hot can I make the peppers? Others (I assume there will be children that need education at some point) will garden as part of the K-12 process. Not the same as being the director of a 100 robot teams growing almost countless numbers of say radishes.

For FOQ1

Re post in Agriculture...

This is going to become a category well worth reading.

Your ID stands out in a sea of Red. If we ever get any readers they will jump on ** any ** post that is not red!

you said:

Have to be a little bit pedantic here. The thing that caused the shift was not Capitalism, it was the Industrial Revolution. Capitalism started to become a major force shortly thereafter and accelerated the process but it was broad application of machinery that drove our capacity to harvest more crops with fewer people. An additional acceleration came with the development of modern chemistry and subsequently 'soil science.' We may see an additional improvement in calories per acre with the burgeoning Permaculture movement.

What I'm hoping we can do is to "publish" something worth people's time.

In this context, you are an "author" and you have published an enticing opening line of a series.

I wonder about the distinction you've made, and would ** really ** appreciate more details to go with the grand summary.

The concept of Private Property fits into the sequence somewhere, but I'm not sure where. Machinery has been invented all along, with the lever and the wheel just being a couple of examples, along with the boat for flotation. What I suspect we might find is that a combination of factors worked together to liberate the masses from hard labor tending fields.

in any case, in a well designed colony on Mars, we should see almost NO one working with their hands to tend plants, as a ** vocation **. Tending plants by hand will surely be a psychological boost to everyone.

If the colony falls to the point that humans are physically tending plants as a *** vocation *** then something is seriously wrong!

I think your enthusiasm caused you to greatly exaggerate the number of humans needed to tend plants.

However, my interest in promoting this forum is NOT to encourage argument. I think that one or two members in the old forum got a psychological benefit out of argument, and quite possibly, by feeling superior to others. I can't prove that, of course. It just ** seemed ** that way to me. My concern is that a defeated member is a member on the way out the door.

I am hoping we might create a climate in which a "first draft" idea might be given freedom to run for a while, but that the author would be willing to consider feedback that arrives as folks consider it.

If an idea is *** really *** solid, it might eventually become dogma.

An example is the 3-5-8 rule for atmosphere in habitats ...

The old forum has (literally) years of discussion of this important rule for habitats and for space craft.

Upon occasion, decimal points went out to several places.

By now, I ** hope ** it has settled down to dogma, with a simple, easy-to-remember formula that children can learn.

As the lead author in the Agriculture category, please continue developing a series that a person (let's imagine a young person) could read and find enlightenment that stands up to further reading.

If you ever change your mind, you can always go back to revise the title, but for now, let's see if you can support your premise.

(th)

For FOQ1 re title of topic:

The line I quoted is the title of the new topic.]

I'll quote it again so we can be sure we are talking about the same text:

Agriculture as the primary vocation of Martians

A reasonable interpretation of the title of the new topic is that you (the author) believe 50% or more of humans on Mars will earn their income supporting agriculture.

This prediction could well be correct.

That would mean that things have gone badly wrong, and that automated systems have failed to sustain the food production (agricultural production) needs of the population.

My expectation is that a very small percentage of the population would earn full time income supporting agriculture directly.

Again, your prediction could very well turn out to be right.

To me, that would mean disaster occurred.

(th)

Tom,

You quoted a single sentence absent it's context. Of course, Mars agriculture will use a lot of robotics. My thrust is the agriculture is going to be the biggest and most important economic activity. It is a source, of fiber, fuel, dyes, carbohydrates (-> hydrocarbons), and food. And one that is more complex with multiple feed back loops than open pit mining of resources or mass production of anything mechanical. It will require more human-in-the-loop interaction.

For FOQ1 re interesting topic just launched:

Agriculture as the primary vocation of Martians

I hope this topic receives careful study and thoughtful responses!

It may be a while before we get enough members to address the premise of the topic with the attention (I think) it deserves.

My assessment is that 99% of actual "" work ** will be done by robots on Mars, and only a tiny percentage of the human population will be directly supervising all those robots. My guess is that most humans will be busy as beavers, but NOT working with plants or soil, except for recreation, which I expect many will choose to do.

A model for what we are likely to see is the advanced development of Division of Labor and Specialization in the capitalist system on Earth.

Very few humans are involved in working with plants or animals on Earth these days (in developed countries), and Mars will be developed highly from the outset, because only highly educated persons are likely to travel to Mars.

You have reminded me that I am very likely behind the times in knowledge of Internet communication used by young people on Earth today, and i offer a reminder to you that you may be not yet up-to-date on developments in robotics and Artificial Intelligence.

I've taken up the question of where we go from here with both Gemini and ChatGPT, and both agree that we will soon see humanoid front end equipment for Cloud based AI systems. Both seem fully ready to handle vision, speech and mobility when those peripherals are made available.

(th)

For FOQ1 re Google Meeting!

Thanks ** very ** much for making time to join us this evening!

I thought this was very productive!

I have a long list of todo items coming out of the meeting:

1) Highest Priority ... solve the backup problem !!!
FYI .... it consider running backup on Azure only half the problem. The second piece is copying the backup to an off site location, and preferably more than one. Down the road, we need to spread out support responsibility, but I think I can carry the load for the near term.
2) Implement the upgrade .... the first phase of that is simply studying the procedure and making details plans
3) Implement email service ... I agree that [email protected] can serve for the time being, but down the road I want the web site itself to deliver contact requests to [email protected]
4) Develop a concept for membership designed for the needs of the current generation
I am not convinced that the kind of person who will be moving to Mars, or (more likely) building industries to support Mars development, is the kind of person who is enamored by TikTok. They may be, but I'm just not convinced. When I was in high school, I was highly motivated to master ham radio because that was the ** Internet ** of that time period. Perhaps TikTok is similar? I just don't know. The point I'm trying to make is that I poured my energy and lots of time into learning how to make the equipment, how to operate the equipment, and how to communicate. Once I'd mastered these skills, I stopped, because it turned out that the actual ** use ** of the equipment was not rewarding in itself.

We've talked about trying to create an environment that is rock solid for an entire lifetime, so that a young person can store knowledge there for easy and rapid access throughout a life time. I'm not aware of ** any ** service that can do that other than the forum structure we have now. However, I recognize that I am behind the times, so there may be something more modern that does even better. I'll try to keep an open mind. I'll probably need it.

(th)

@spacenut

I don't see that. I have the MCP but the tabs are horizontal for me instead of vertical. Are we on the latest version of the software? That would be important for security. See screen cap.

yes you have the moderator tag which is a bit different than the admin to which I have.

here is the look for the moderator view.

SpaceNut wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2026 6:11 pm the upper right corner has the software tag and under it is Quick links FAQ ACP and its this last that lets you into the administrative control panel.

here is the example of the features one might be able to change

Please find attached my screenshot. I have a tag and quicklinks on the upper left, and a MCP (Moderator? control panel), but no ACP.

the upper right corner has the software tag and under it is Quick links FAQ ACP and its this last that lets you into the administrative control panel.

here is the example of the features one might be able to change